The following is the transcript of an interview with GOP Sen. John Curtis of Utah that aired on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” on Feb. 23, 2025.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to Face the Nation. We return to our conversation with Utah Republican Senator John Curtis. Good to see you here in person.
SEN. JOHN CURTIS: It’s nice to be in person. Good morning, and lots to talk about today.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Absolutely, I want to get your perspective on the decision by the President on Friday to dismiss not only the Chair of the Joint Chiefs, but also five other senior military officers. The former Chair of the Joint Chiefs, General Martin Dempsey, released a statement saying trust should be based on leadership, integrity and performance to relieve a senior officer, not for a lack of one of those qualities, but for a real or perceived disagreement in their beliefs harmfully politicizes the military profession. Are you concerned, that’s what’s happening here?
SEN. CURTIS: You know, I think we have to stop and look what happened, really, last November. And one of my colleagues described it this way. It was a stop the car moment. Those of us who have had young kids and have been on family vacations know what a stop the car moment is. It’s- kids, you’re so disruptive, we’re stopping the car. And I think in many ways, the American people said, stop the car. We want dramatic change. We’re unhappy with what’s happening at the border. We’re unhappy with the economy. We’re unhappy with so many things. You keep promising that you’re going to cut spending and you don’t. Stop the car. So, people really shouldn’t be surprised that this is a stop the car moment we don’t get to go to Disneyland until we figure this out. And I think that’s what people are seeing right now in Washington.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But you think part of public frustration or that there was correct to be frustration with the leadership at the Pentagon or the President’s top military adviser?
SEN. CURTIS: Look, we elected a commander in chief last November. This is his discretion. They want change. The people want change. We all knew what we were getting with President Trump, right? Nobody should be really surprised at these dramatic shocks to the system. The system needs a shock. And I think what you seeing as a result of that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: There is concern, though, at a time of geopolitical risk, as our Pentagon correspondent was suggesting there that, you know, carrying the institutional knowledge with you through a transition, we’re still the beginning of the Trump administration, certainly, that there could be a hiccup there or some complication. I mean, General Caine- is- Lieutenant General Caine is a three star. He’s retired. It’s not clear if he needs a congressional waiver or not to take this job because he didn’t run a combatant, Combat Command. Do you know how complicated it will be to get him in place, or how long?
SEN. CURTIS: Yeah, I don’t, and I’m not overly worried about that. I’ll come back to this. American people have asked for change. They’ve lost- lost confidence in so many things. They want to see dramatic change that that was a stop the car moment, and what happened at the Pentagon was a stop the car moment. Let’s make some change. We’ve tried subtle changes. We’ve tried the easy changes. We’ve tried working around the edges, and I think the American people are saying it didn’t work. Let’s do something more dramatic.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we’ve certainly seen dramatic. You had the video at the Conservative Political Action Committee of Elon Musk wielding this shiny chainsaw. It’s celebrating this Department of Government Efficiency idea. Yesterday, federal employees also received an email. I’m sure you’ve heard telling them to reply by midnight Monday to a message with five bullet points of what they accomplished in the last week. Elon Musk tweeted, failure to do so would result in firing. Utah has 33,000 federal employees. Is that how they should be treated?
SEN. CURTIS: So, listen, let’s go back to 36 thousand- trillion dollars of debt, and we have to do something dramatic. Now to answer your question, I don’t believe so. You know, I just published an op-ed Deseret News, Deseret.com, and I talk about my experience as mayor and having to do similar things. If I could say one thing to Elon Musk, it’s like, please put a dose of compassion in this. These are real people. These are real lives. These are mortgages. We- it’s a false narrative to say we have to cut and you have to be cruel to do it as well. We can do both.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, it’s- it’s not just about efficiency, though. I mean, the President himself has characterized this as getting rid of bad people.
SEN. CURTIS: You know, I regret that narrative. We all know thousands- millions of federal workers who are good people, who work hard. But the reality of it is, we have 3 million federal workers. Not all of them do. Many aren’t coming to work. In my work- business–
MARGARET BRENNAN: — Working from home, you mean?–
SEN. CURTIS: — Working from home. Let’s hope they’re working from home. We don’t know. That’s why the email. What are you doing? It’s not unusual in a corporate setting to have people report and explain what they’re doing, especially if they’re working from home. So I don’t think this is a request that is that difficult. I would ask my employees to let me know what they’re doing. But I will double down on the fact of we don’t need to be so cold and hard, and let’s put a little compassion and, quite frankly, dignity in this as well.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right. And in that op-ed, you said sometimes it is the worst day of someone’s life–
SEN. CURTIS: — It is —
MARGARET BRENNAN: — To receive a notice like this.
SEN. CURTIS: Yeah, and going back to my experience as mayor, we did have to let some people go. We did a lot through attrition. But every single person we let go, I met with personally. I looked them in the eye. I told them why we had to do it. How can we then help you transition to the next thing? We can do both things.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, that’s not happening at all, right now, as you know. And at these department agencies- some of them, they’re just getting locked out of systems. People don’t even know who to ask. They can’t ask HR, and HR says, I don’t know. If they can get hold of them at all.
SEN. CURTIS: But I’ll also come back to this stop the car moment. Like this is not a normal moment. We have tried- we’ve tried for years to do this gracefully. We’ve tried for years to do this slowly, and we have failed consistently. And the American people said, enough. We’re tired of this. You have to make these changes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So do you believe the President has the unilateral authority to cancel funds appropriated by Congress?
SEN. CURTIS: Well, what we’re seeing play out is this wrestle between the three branches of government. We’ll find out. And this is the beauty of the system–
MARGARET BRENNAN:– You don’t have a point of view?
SEN. CURTIS: Well, listen, I believe in the Constitution, right? I believe this is how we test the Constitution. And people have said, oh, this is a constitutional crisis. And I say, exactly the opposite. It’s proving to work. We have the courts playing it. We have Congress who will play in. We have the ability, I think we hold a lot of responsibility for what’s happening right now. We could solve the budget as Congress. We could solve the border, and we haven’t. And both parties, when Congress doesn’t do their job in the White House, have a tendency to try to solve it. Let’s let this play out by the Constitution and- and then Congress, let’s step up, right? We need to- I’ll be the first to say we. This is a problem the Congress is, in many cases, has given the American people.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The pushback has been relatively quiet. You’re gently doing that by saying, be more compassionate. Senator Murkowski was telling constituents the other day, I can’t be the only one speaking out.–
SEN. CURTIS: — So, listen–
MARGARET BRENNAN:– Are Republican lawmakers going to be more forceful?
SEN. CURTIS: I don’t know what you want me to be more forceful on. Stop the car, like, fix this. That’s what Utahns are telling me.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, in terms of the congressional role here. The check being–
SEN. CURTIS: — Yeah. But I also–
MARGARET BRENNAN: — put on the executive–
SEN. CURTIS: — think that’s the stop the car moment. Congress has failed in these- in these things, and the people have said, fix it. So Donald Trump is trying to fix it with the tools that he has. The courts will push back if he steps out of line. We’ve seen that. We know that. We saw that with President Biden as well. And that’s the beauty of the system. It works. Now, it’s very- it’s the people back home are impatient. If you were to walk on the streets in Utah, they would say, stop the car, John. Like this is not good. You have promised. Your colleagues have promised for decades that you would fix these things, and you haven’t.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we’ll see if the fiscal problems are fixed in the near term. Senator, it’s going to be up to you, and your fellow lawmakers. We’ll be right back.
