The following is the transcript of an interview with Sen. Bernie Sanders, Independent of Vermont, on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” that aired on Feb. 2, 2025.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We go now to Independent Senator Bernie Sanders from Burlington, Vermont. Good morning to you, Senator. Very quickly, do you have a sense of the impact of these tariffs on your state?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS: Well, it’s going to be very severe, but this is not the only thing that worries me. Margaret, we are living in an unprecedented moment in American history. We’re looking at a rapid growth of oligarchy. We’re looking at a rapid growth of authoritarianism. And I fear that we’re looking at a rapid growth of kleptocracy as well. And I’m going to do everything I can to work with my supporters all over this country to stand up and fight back to make sure we have an economy that works for everybody, not just Elon Musk, and that we maintain American democracy. Difficult times.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator- Senator, I’m going to have to ask you more about what you mean by that on the other side of this commercial break, because I have to take it. Stay with us. We hope all of you will as well.
[COMMERCIAL BREAK]
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to “Face the Nation.” We return to our conversation with Vermont Independent Senator Bernie Sanders. Senator, thank you for sticking with us through the break. I want to ask you about some of the rather fiery hearings you were a part of this past week, in particular with the potential Health and Human Services Secretary to-be RFK Jr. You told CBS in December you think he’s right about the food industry and obesity and what he says about high prices for prescription drugs. But during the hearing, you had some sharp exchanges. Are you, at this point, decided on your vote? Will you cross over and help Republicans confirm him?
SEN. SANDERS: No, I have- Margaret, I have up to now, voted for some Trump appointees. A few. I voted against most, and I’ll make my decisions next week. Where Kennedy is right is, we are an unhealthy society- a point I’ve been making, many others have been making for a long time. One of the things that concerns me very much, and Kennedy mentioned it, is our life expectancy. How long our people live is five years less–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –Yep–
SEN. SANDERS: –than other wealthy countries. And if you’re working class in this country, you live six or seven years lower than if you are rich. It is an issue we have to deal with. And I think the kind of addictive and poisonous food that the food industry is providing our kids is one of the factors, not many. But when you have Kennedy come forward in saying he cannot- he believes- continues to believe that autism is caused by vaccines despite the fact that there have been a dozen studies over the years which disprove that. When he has other conspiracy theories- when he cannot acknowledge that if you’re going to make America healthy, you’ve got to guarantee health care to all people. He was not clear about the need to take on the greed of the pharmaceutical industry and lower prescription drug costs. So I was not particularly happy with his presentation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: On the autism point, there is no established cause of autism spectrum disorder, but one in 36 children have been identified with it. According to the CDC, there is concern in this space, including from your Republican colleague, Cassidy. He is a medical doctor. He said he’s struggling with the nomination because he fears Kennedy may undermine faith in vaccines. Take a listen.
[SEN. BILL CASSIDY SOT]
SEN. CASSIDY: I recognize, man, if you come out unequivocally, vaccines are safe, it does not cause autism. That would have an incredible impact. That’s your power. So what’s it going to be? Will it be using the credibility to support lots of articles, or will it be using credibility to undermine
[END SOT]
MARGARET BRENNAN: The Senator seemed to be saying, If you want my vote, answer the question you said you haven’t decided on RFK and how you’re going to vote. Is this a red line for you?
SEN. SANDERS: Well, look I don’t want to- I- Margaret, what I’m saying is I just don’t go around making these announcements. I will vote when I’ll vote. But anybody who watched that hearing understands my deep concerns about Kennedy, but I got to tell you, the conspiracy theories that he is throwing out is not unlike what we’re hearing all over the Trump administration. And to me, what is most important in terms of what’s been happening since Trump has been president, it’s not just him having the three wealthiest people in the country stand behind them. By the way, anybody, any working person in this country, should understand what that means. It means that you can have a government working for the very rich, not for the working class of this country, but the movement toward authoritarianism. Yeah, go ahead. I’m sorry.
MARGARET BRENNAN: No- No, I want to ask you about that, but just to push you on this point, because it’s not just a matter of a vote, like what you are saying is that someone at the top of the health department who is rejecting science or rejecting data that says there’s no linkage here, no proven linkage here, by not being clear and saying that’s a red line, doesn’t that lend itself to misinterpretation? Why won’t you say that’s disqualifying for him?
SEN. SANDERS: Because I have not said- I have not said to anybody how I will vote. It doesn’t matter. I will vote when I vote, but let me just tell you–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –Okay, because Republicans were hoping you would help them. That’s why I’m asking you.
SEN. SANDERS: Well, I know they hope for a lot of things that just may not happen. But I think- go ahead.
MARGARET BRENNAN: –Go ahead. I’m sorry.
SEN. SANDERS: Look, the bottom line is, we have a health care crisis in America. We’re the only major country not to guarantee health care to all people. We pay by far the highest prices in the world for prescription drugs. Our life expectancy is shorter than other countries. Yes, we’ve got to deal with it in a very direct and forceful manner. You got to take on the insurance companies. Got to move to Medicare for All, got to lower the cost of prescription drugs. We have to understand why our life expectancy is low. And by the way, it’s not just health care. It’s the fact that so many of our working people are stressed out by inadequate incomes that that’s having an impact on not only their lifespans, but their well being. Those are issues we’ve got to address.
MARGARET BRENNAN: During the campaign then candidate Trump and Vance, they were very much championing working class people, as you have through the years. They said they support unions. They don’t want to tax tips. They want child care tax credits. They’re pro-worker. Do you see any opportunities to work with them on specific policies? And if so, where?
SEN. SANDERS: Well, if they were telling the truth and they will go forward in trying to stand up for the working class, of course I will work with them. But I got to tell you, just last week, what Trump did is essentially neuter the National Labor Relations Board. This is something that Bezos wanted. It’s something that Elon Musk wanted. What that means if you are a worker right now- and there are millions of workers who want to join a union, because they know unions will give you better wages and better working conditions, better benefits, what they have done is neuter that. So right now, union busting corporations, like Amazon and others, can do what they do against workers with impunity. That is not standing with workers. We need to raise the starvation minimum wage, which is now seven and a quarter an hour, to a living wage. I’ve not heard one word from the Trump administration about that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, they want to leave that up to states and corporations as well to make a decision–
SEN. SANDERS: –That- that ain’t going to do it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Vice President Vance told us last Sunday, despite those big tech CEOs giving money to the inauguration for Donald Trump, he still believes they have too much power in big tech and that he says they’re still very much on notice. In regard to his past warnings they could be broken up. Is that a place you are also concerned and could work with him on?
SEN. SANDERS: Well, I think Lina Khan, the former head of the FTC, did a great job, and if Vance wants to work with us on that. He’s right. You have right now, not only more income and wealth inequality in this country than ever before, more concentration of ownership in the tech industry and in other industries. Do I think we should start breaking up some of these large corporations? Absolutely, I do, and we’d be happy to work with them if they’re serious about that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator Bernie Sanders, Independent from Vermont, thank you for joining us. We’ll be right back.
