On this “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” broadcast, moderated by Margaret Brennan:
- Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem
- Kirsten Hillman, Canadian ambassador to the U.S.
- Reps. Brian Fitzpatrick, Republican of Pennsylvania, and Tom Suozzi, Democrat of New York
- Fiona Hill, former White House Russia expert
Click here to browse full transcripts from 2025 of “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan.”
MARGARET BRENNAN: I’m Margaret Brennan in Washington.
And this week on Face the Nation: President Trump’s tariff threats rattle allies and adversaries alike, plus the latest on the administration’s immigration crackdown.
After a whiplash week of on-again/off-again tariffs, the Trump trade war is entering a new phase, as the president steps up his threats against America’s neighbors.
(Begin VT)
DONALD TRUMP (President of the United States): We don’t need trees from Canada. We don’t need cars from Canada. We don’t need energy from Canada. We don’t need anything from Canada.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: And acknowledges the possibility of economic disruption.
(Begin VT)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: There could be some disturbance, a little bit of disturbance.
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MARGARET BRENNAN: The administration says it hopes the tariffs will pressure Canada and Mexico to stop the flow of fentanyl and illegal migrants into the U.S.
We will ask Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem if it’s working and we will get the latest on the president’s mass deportation mission.
Canada’s ambassador to the U.S., Kirsten Hillman, will also be here. We will ask her about the costs and consequences of the growing trade war.
Plus, with just days to go before a possible government shutdown, lawmakers unveil a new bill to avoid it. We will hear from the co-chairs of the congressional Problem Solvers Caucus, Pennsylvania Republican Brian Fitzpatrick and New York Democrat Tom Suozzi.
Finally, Russia expert Fiona Hill, who served as a top National Security Council official during the first Trump administration, joins us to discuss Trump’s diplomatic pivot on Ukraine.
It’s all just ahead on Face the Nation.
Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation.
We begin this morning with the secretary of homeland security, Kristi Noem.
Madam Secretary, good to have you in person. Thank you for joining us.
KRISTI NOEM (U.S. Homeland Security Secretary): Yes, good morning. Thank you for having me.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to dive right into this trade war.
The justification President Trump invoked these tariffs under had to do with fentanyl. Mexico’s president said Thursday that Customs and Border Protection figures show seizures of fentanyl on the southern border have dropped over the past year. She claimed they plummeted 75 percent in the past six months.
Doesn’t that show the existing system is working?
SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: We’ve seen incredible progress as far as what we’ve been able to stop at the southern border since President Trump has taken office.
And I think that progress can be built on. These partnerships that we have in going after traffickers, cartels, the drug trade, and also human trafficking can be even stronger and built on in the future. That’s one of the things we’ve been asking for, in specific to the Mexican government, is, how can we work better together to make sure we not only have the enforcement mission at the border, but south of the border and make sure we’re going after these cartels?
You’ve seen the president name them as terrorist organizations. And Canada just recently is starting to allow us to access some of their criminal background histories that we need in order to know who’s coming across our border and what they’re bringing. So, because of his strong stance on tariffs, we’re seeing them wanting to be better partners with us to keep our people safe.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So Canada’s Prime Minister said it’s totally false to claim Canada is unwilling to fight fentanyl. You just indicated they’re willing to do more here.
He pointed to CBP data that showed a 97 percent drop in fentanyl seizures from January compared to December, a near zero low, he said.
SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: Yes, we’re…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Is the data accurate?
SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: The data is getting better. And I would say, in the conversations that I have had this week with Canadian officials, they were hoping to avoid the tariffs, and had a lot of conversations, but not a lot of action.
So this is the hope, is that the fact that President Trump has said something and now has enforced consequences, we really are hoping for even better partnerships. We need access to their criminal background system, so that we know, when someone crosses that northern border, who they are, why they’re in our country, and who they may be partnering with.
We also need them to work with us on identifying packages, technology investments. Canada has said they will do that. We just want to see them actually do it. In the past, promises have been made by both Mexico and Canada that they didn’t follow through on. Their naming of a fentanyl czar in Canada is important. That’s great. Now let’s see really what happens.
President Trump has been strong, and I think that’s why you’ve seen the data going our direction. But, boy, every day, people in this country are dying of overdoses. And I don’t want any more families to have to deal with that tragedy if we can be – if it can be avoided and we can have a stronger relationship.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So you just gave specific examples of what Canada and Mexico can do presumably to avoid the tariffs that are now being pushed off until April 2.
SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: Correct.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The commerce secretary said on another network: “If fentanyl ends, I think these will come off, but if fentanyl does not end, or he’s uncertain about it,” meaning the president, “they will stay on until he’s comfortable.
Is it that general, or are these very specific things that you can kind of go through and check to avoid these tariffs?
SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: Yes, I have had very specific conversations with Canadian officials and Mexican officials on what they can do. So they know what they can do to help avoid tariffs in the future, and what we’re expecting of them.
If they do it, we shall see. We all recognize that each one of these leaders has political environments in their home countries as well, but President Trump means business. And he meant it when he ran to be president of the United States again and since he’s taken office that he will put America first.
And every day in this country, we have seen over the last several years violence and unsafe streets and cities and people lose their children and grandchildren, and he’s taking action to make sure that we’re cleaning up the mess that Joe Biden left behind, and that we have a much safer country, and where Americans can look forward to the future.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So this is not just leverage to get a better free trade deal? This is not just because President Trump truly believes that tariffs are the heart of his economic policy?
SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: Right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You’re saying this really is about fentanyl?
SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: It really is about fentanyl. It really is.
And I think the president obviously wants a strong economy, obviously wants better trade deals as well. But this is about fentanyl and what we can do to stop the cartels from partnering with Chinese officials, laundering money and bringing a poison into our country that is specifically designed to kill the next generation.
I think a lot of people don’t understand the strategy…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: … of these enemies of the United States and what they’re utilizing.
They are bringing this in, not just to make money. They’re bringing it in here to kill Americans. And it’s time that we stand up for the people that live here and make sure that we’re stopping this war against our children.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to ask you.Border crossings, they’re at a 25-year low.
SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: They are. It’s fantastic.
MARGARET BRENNAN: There are 6,000 U.S. military personnel working at the border now. That number could go up to 9,000 by the end of the month.
How long do you have to keep them there if the numbers are already dropping like this?
SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: You know, we’ll continue the partnership with the Department of Defense.
But, also, we’ve got partnerships with Commerce, with the attorney general’s office. You know, we’re working every day with the secretary of state. We’ll keep them there until that border is completely secure. And we see all-time record lows of encounters. Our Border Patrol is doing fantastic work.
But we’re going to keep them there until the whole world gets the message that this isn’t Joe Biden’s world anymore. This is President Donald Trump’s country, where we have a border, where we have laws, and it applies equally to everybody. I think that is what is so refreshing, is that we’re not picking and choosing winners and losers anymore.
Americans have to live by the law. So do those who come to this country. You have to come here legally, or there will be consequences.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Let me ask you about what’s happening internally when it comes to – excuse me – migration.
The administration has revived this policy of detaining migrant families, parents with children, in ICE detention centers. Bush did it. Obama did it. Biden did not. Have you seen these Texas facilities where children are being held with their parents? Are you comfortable with it personally?
SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: We’ve got detention facilities across the country, and there’s specific ones that are built specifically for families if they are detained.
But, remember, everybody has an option. They have an option to be here legally or illegally, and they can self-deport as well. We’ve set up a system and a Web site where people who are here illegally right now can register, and they can choose to go home on their own and keep their families united.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The kids don’t have a choice in this. You know that.
SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: Well, the kids do have a choice. If they have parents, they make a choice to keep their families together, if they want to or not. They – if parents make a decision to leave their children behind, then that’s a choice that they made as a family.
And we need to remember that when Americans break the law, and they have consequences or face a situation, they’re separated from their families too. I don’t believe we should prioritize people from other countries above Americans.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But when it comes to reviving the policy of separating families from their children at the border…
SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: I don’t know that we’re actually reviving it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s what I want to ask you.
SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: It’s that President Biden didn’t follow the law.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You won’t…
SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: He didn’t follow the law, in the fact that it’s always been equally applied until his administration, and then he made decisions to ignore federal law in how he handled immigration and enforcement within our borders.
And so, today, we’re – we’re expanding our team at ICE, and we’re going to have an acting director in Todd Lyons, who has a long history with Tom Homan. They have worked together to build on these enforcement operations. We’re also naming a deputy secretary in Madison Sheahan. That was going to be another expansion of this team.
They have done incredible work cleaning up our communities and making them safer. Adding more people to the team, with Todd and with Madison, is going to allow us to partner with local law enforcement officials to make sure that we truly are following through on enforcing the law. And, if you break our law, then there’s going to be consequences.
MARGARET BRENNAN: al Qaeda you want the number of deportations to tick up?
(CROSSTALK)
SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: I do, absolutely.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So…
SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: People, remember, they have an option to go home on their own.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: We are giving them that opportunity to do that, and we will help facilitate that. And if they don’t, and they end up coming into our enforcement opportunities that we have in front of us, you know, they may never get the chance to come back. So people need to remember, if they self-deport, they will have an opportunity to come back to this country legally.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But you have a capacity issue right now in terms of just beds to put people in when you detain them. Are you going to open up military facilities like Fort Bliss?
SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: There is, yes, a plan to use the facilities at Fort Bliss for detention facilities.
But, also, we need to remember to ask – Congress needs to continue through with funding that this administration has asked for. You know, we clearly have a C.R. discussion in front of us this week. We have a reconciliation discussion. That reconciliation bill needs to happen. We have just weeks before we are out of the funds to continue the operations that – that we have.
And even – everywhere I have been in this country out there, looking at what President Trump has done on immigration and border enforcement, the people that I meet are saying, thank you. Thank you for getting these terrorists out of the country. He has deported…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Terrorists?
SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: … in just one month…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Have you deported terrorists?
SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: … 22 known and – terrorists on the terrorist watch list are out of this country now.
We have almost 700 gang members that have been deported out of the country in just a month, and…
(CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: … which have been redefined as foreign terrorist organizations by the Trump administration.
SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: Well, 281 specific TDA members, which we know are the worst of the worst, have been taken out of this country.
So, everyone that has a story like Laken Riley’s family or Jocelyn’s family, they’re extremely grateful that that won’t be perpetuated amongst other families in other states.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to ask you. You said that you have found leakers within DHS and you’re going to prosecute them.
Back on February 9, you tweeted: “The FBI is so corrupt.We will work with any and every agency to stop leaks.”
Were you wrong then to blame the FBI if the leaks were from within DHS?
SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: No, I think there’s leakers all over throughout this government. I think that everybody needs to be…
MARGARET BRENNAN: What did they leak?
SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: I think these – in DHS specifically, these two were leaking our enforcement operations that we had planned and were going to conduct in several cities and exposed law enforcement to vulnerabilities, to those ops being jeopardized, to where their lives would be in danger.
So they will be prosecuted, and they could face up to 10 years in federal prison because they did that. Anyone who is leaking information outside of – of how something is planned for the safety of those law enforcement officers needs to be held accountable for that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And you’re going to continue these polygraphing…
SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: Absolutely.
MARGARET BRENNAN: … of employees?
SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: The authorities that I have under the Department of Homeland Security are broad and extensive. And I plan to use every single one of them to make sure that we’re following the law, that we are following the procedures in place to keep people safe, and that we’re making sure we’re following through on what President Trump has promised, that he’s going to make America safe again.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Madam Secretary, thank you for your time today.
SECRETARY KRISTI NOEM: Thank you for having me.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Canadian officials are warning of retaliation against the U.S. over President Trump’s tariff threats.
Senior White House and political correspondent Ed O’Keefe has the latest from Ottawa.
ED O’KEEFE: Well, Margaret, President Trump is now threatening tariffs on Canadian dairy and lumber exports, even as he holds off on the broader tariffs on goods covered by the U.S.-Mexico-Canada trade agreement until at least early April.
This has mostly been a war of words so far, rather than a war over the wallet, but that’s going to change in the coming day, as Ontario is now threatening to tariff electricity it wires to Minnesota, Michigan and New York.
(Begin VT)
DOUG FORD (Premier of Ontario, Canada): I’m going to put a 25 percent tariff on the electricity, the 1.5 million homes and businesses, as of Monday, until President Trump drops these tariffs.
He has to understand that he can’t attack our country economically and expect us to roll over.
(End VT)
ED O’KEEFE: It’s not entirely clear how the cost of those tariffs would be passed on to American households.
Now, we’re here in Ottawa today because, amid the tariff war, there’s also a Canadian transfer of power under way. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau announced in January he would be stepping down after nearly a decade. His ruling Liberal Party today anoints his successor.
It’s a race between Mark Carney, an economist and the former head of the Banks of Canada and Britain, and Chrystia Freeland, a former Trudeau deputy. Whoever wins the race, Margaret, becomes prime minister and has to deal with President Trump and the tariff war.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That was our Ed O’Keefe in Ottawa.
We’re joined now by Canada’s ambassador to the United States, Kirsten Hillman.
Ambassador, it’s good to have you here.
KIRSTEN HILLMAN (Canadian Ambassador to the United States): Thanks for having me, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You just heard the homeland security secretary say there are conversations with your government. She seemed optimistic that there would be follow-through on fentanyl.
Does that make you think the threat of tariffs on April 2 is something that can be managed and avoided?
AMBASSADOR KIRSTEN HILLMAN: Well, I hope so.
I mean, it – I think that we are in a very good place in our discussions with the U.S. administration on fentanyl. We have invested a lot of new resources. We have given our law enforcement new powers. And we have responded to the requests of the Trump administration with respect to cooperative effects in getting at the sources, so the organized crime, the precursors coming from China.
We’ve had some really, really good discussions. So we’re optimistic. And, you know, I just would say, and I think it’s important for your viewers to know, fentanyl is a very serious problem in Canada too. On some days, we have more deaths per capita than you have here in the United States.
So we take this very seriously. It is not a big issue between our two countries. Less than 1 percent of the fentanyl that is seized in the United States is coming from Canada, but every ounce can kill families and people. So we’re taking it very seriously.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But you are indulging the premise that that is the actual motivation for the tariffs, rather than leverage for a free trade deal or just because President Trump believes in them?
AMBASSADOR KIRSTEN HILLMAN: Well, I think that this set of tariffs, the 25 and 10 percent set of tariffs, are – we have been told repeatedly that it is about fentanyl and security at the border.
There are other tariffs that have been discussed, and the president has raised other issues as motivations for other tariffs, reciprocity and fairness, and, you know, maybe some changes that he’d like to see to our USMCA, our trade agreement. So those conversations are going to have to happen as well.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, President Trump said Friday he may put tariffs on Canadian lumber and dairy Monday or Tuesday. Here’s what he said. Take a listen:
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DONALD TRUMP (President of the United States): Canada has been ripping us off for years on tariffs for lumber and for dairy products, 250 percent. Nobody ever talks about that, 250 percent tariff, which is taking advantage of our farmers. So that’s not going to happen anymore.
We’re going to be – they’ll be met with the exact same tariff unless they drop it. And that’s what reciprocal means.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: On another network, the commerce secretary said, no, that’s actually on hold until April 2.
It’s confusing for us to follow this along. Is the clarity with the two governments any better?
AMBASSADOR KIRSTEN HILLMAN: You know, we are in active discussions with Secretary Lutnick. And those discussions are heading towards April 2.
And that, I think, is – we are putting our energy in the substantive discussions that we are having with the secretary, with USTR, with the White House. And, you know, that is, I guess, how I can answer that question.
The president – the president does have a variety of concerns and I think also sees tariffs as a tool for a variety of policy objectives. But, really, all we can do is focus on the real work at hand, which is to get at these issues, like, for example, lumber. Canada doesn’t have a tariff on lumber. It’s zero. U.S. lumber can come into Canada duty-free.
On dairy, the U.S. sells three times as much dairy into Canada as we sell into the United States. So, what’s more, I think, productive for us is to talk about the facts around the actual trading relationship and try and get at where the concerns are.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But Canada does put a tariff as high as 241 percent on dairy imports, but it’s a sliding scale that only kicks in at a certain level, and that’s under the free trade deal.
AMBASSADOR KIRSTEN HILLMAN: That’s right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So…
AMBASSADOR KIRSTEN HILLMAN: And it’s like the United States. In agriculture, the United States is the same.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
AMBASSADOR KIRSTEN HILLMAN: In sugar and dairy, you allow a certain amount of product in, and then, after that level is hit, you put restraints in on imports. And we do the same to protect our farmers and families and, you know, small family farms that – that need to be sure that they can have a bit of the market.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, there was this 50-minute phone call Wednesday with the vice president, the commerce secretary and President Trump with your prime minister, Justin Trudeau.
Afterwards, the president posted that Trudeau was unable to tell him when the election was taking place, which made him curious, like – quote – “What’s going on here? I then realized he’s trying to use this issue to stay in power.”
Do you think this is, like, a personal issue here? Do you think it’ll change when your leadership changes?
AMBASSADOR KIRSTEN HILLMAN: It’s hard for me to – hard for me to say.
I think that the prime minister and the president, Prime Minister Trudeau and the president, they’ve done big things together, right? They did renegotiate NAFTA together.
MARGARET BRENNAN: They have a history together.
AMBASSADOR KIRSTEN HILLMAN: Right. They have a long history. They did good things together. They managed our 6,000 – practically 6,000-mile border during COVID very successfully, in my opinion.
So it’s a long relationship, and has many – has had many phases to it. We will have a new prime minister this week. Today, the Liberal Party will elect a new leader. That new leader will be sworn in, in the coming days, and that person will become Canada’s prime minister. Those are facts that are not going to change.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you think it will stop the vows from the president to talk about threatening to annex Canada?
AMBASSADOR KIRSTEN HILLMAN: You know, I guess what I can…
MARGARET BRENNAN: What is that?
AMBASSADOR KIRSTEN HILLMAN: I – I – yes, I – I’m – I’m not sure what that is.
What I can say is that Canadians don’t really appreciate it. They’re getting a little bit frustrated with that kind of rhetoric. But, more importantly, Canadians are frustrated with our neighbors, you know, the country that we feel closest to, the country that is partners, allies, often family that we’ve gone to war with, that we’ve died with, that we come to each other’s aid, most recently in L.A., but obviously 9/11.
You’ve come to our aid over the years so many times. And we feel – Canadians feel under attack, under economic attack. And that is causing some challenges, for sure, across Canadian society. I think our new prime minister, when that person comes in, will prioritize trying to have a good and – and healthy and productive relationship with the president.
I am sure that that’s going to be possible. Relationships go both ways, but I know that, on our side, that’s going to be a priority.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Ambassador, thank you for joining us.
AMBASSADOR KIRSTEN HILLMAN: Thanks.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we’ll be right back with a lot more Face the Nation.
Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We turn now to another front in President Trump’s trade war, and that’s China.
Foreign correspondent Anna Coren is in Beijing with the latest.
ANNA COREN: A tone of defiance from Beijing this week, with China preparing for a protracted trade war with the United States, which it maintains will have no winners.
It announced retaliatory tariffs on U.S. agricultural products and targeted 25 American companies in response to the now 20 percent blanket tariffs President Trump placed on all Chinese goods.
In a press conference on the sidelines of the National People’s Congress, China’s Foreign Minister Wang Yi said the country would fight back, despite economic challenges at home. And without naming President Trump, he accused the U.S. of being duplicitous in its relationship with China, saying:
(Begin VT)
(FOREIGN MINISTER WANG YI SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
(End VT)
ANNA COREN: “No country should expect to suppress and contain China on one hand while maintaining good relations with China on the other.”
Well, earlier this week, his ministry used particularly aggressive language, stating: “If war is what the U.S. wants, be it a tariff war, a trade war or any other type of war, we’re ready to fight until the end.”
While there’s no doubt a trade war will hurt China’s economy, it’s had six years to prepare for this since a trade war began in 2018. And, Margaret, despite being open to negotiations, its decision to opt for defiance, rather than flattery, is a sign China won’t back down.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Anna Coren in Beijing.
We will be right back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We will be right back with a lot more Face the Nation, including an interview with the bipartisan co-chairs of the Congressional Problem Solvers Caucus, Pennsylvania Republican Brian Fitzpatrick and New York Democrat Tom Suozzi, plus the latest on President Trump’s push for peace talks between Ukraine and Russia.
Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to FACE THE NATION.
We’re joined now by the co-chairs of the bipartisan Problem Solvers Caucus, Pennsylvania Republican Brian Fitzpatrick, represents a district that was narrowly carried by Kamala Harris, and New York Democrat Tom Suozzi, represents a district that went for President Trump.
So, you all have to find the middle. And that brings you together and brings you here today. It’s good to see, in a bipartisan fashion, this conversation take place.
But I want to start with you, Congressman Fitzpatrick.
There is this potential government shutdown looming March the 14th. Speaker Johnson says there’s going to be a vote on Tuesday. Will Republicans be able to pass this on party lines or do you need Democratic votes?
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK (R-PA): Well, that remains to be seen. You know, the text was just released yesterday compliant with the 72-hour rule before a vote. We’re still digging through it, like most bills. There’s some good in there. There’s some not so good in there. And we’ve got to make an accurate decision.
I will say, you know, Tom and I are friends. We came in together. We obviously co-chair this bipartisan group together. And we do lament the fact of any single party bill.
The construct in this country is, if you get 218 votes, you get everything. If you get 217 votes, you get nothing. And that doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.
So, the reason that we do what we do is we want two-party solutions, including on the CR. So, it remains to be seen whether the votes are there or not, but I think we’re really going to be learning, over the next 24 hours, what’s in it and what’s not in it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, you haven’t decided your vote?
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: Correct.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What about you, Congressman Suozzi, because Leader Jeffries initially said in a letter that Democrats cannot back it. You have the text. Are you a no?
REPRESENTATIVE TOM SUOZZI (D-NY): Right now, I’m a no. I mean, there’s been no outreach on a bipartisan basis. What Brian and I are trying to do in this environment, you can imagine, is not too easy.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE TOM SUOZZI: Everything’s very fractured. Everything’s very divisive. And to overcome that requires trust building and requires people to work together.
In the case of this CR, there’s been offers to negotiate, and there’s been very little negotiation. It’s kind of been a my way or the highway type of thing. And I think that’s going to go on for a while. I think that the leadership is going to try and do my way or the highway for a while and then at some point they’re going to need Democratic votes and then people start negotiating.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Awhile, meaning we could be staring down a shutdown March 14th?
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: Well, we’ll find out on Tuesday or Wednesday. I believe the government funding runs out at the end of the week.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: We’re scheduled to end votes on Wednesday. Oftentimes, that does not happen during weeks like this. But it’s incumbent upon every legislator to read the text and to make an aggregate decision. Does the good outweigh the bad?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: We never want to shut the government down. It’s why I think we need no budget, no pay. If you cut legislator’s funding off if they don’t pass a CR or a budget, I think you’ll have a much different outcome. So, people need to put their money where their mouth is.
REPRESENTATIVE TOM SUOZZI: Right now, the Republicans are counting on all the Republicans in the House to stick together to pass this through the House with no Democratic votes. That’s what they’re counting on. That’s why they’ve conducted themselves this way.
Then it goes to the Senate. In the Senate, you need 60 votes. You don’t have 60 votes with the Senate Republicans. So, it’s going to become a challenge for the Senate Republicans and the Senate Democrats to decide, who’s going to get blamed for this thing?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
REPRESENTATIVE TOM SUOZZI: And wouldn’t it be better if we all just worked together to try and find common ground the way we –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Exactly.
REPRESENTATIVE TOM SUOZZI: This is not normal what we’re doing. The idea of a full year continuing resolution is not the normal process.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
REPRESENTATIVE TOM SUOZZI: And there’s a lot of bad stuff that I see in this bill that I don’t like.
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: And I will add, Margaret, I’ve lived through government shutdowns as an FBI agent, and it’s horrific. Title Three wire taps get shut down, surveillance teams get shut down. It is massive implications that most people don’t realize. You never ever want to shut the government down. It should never happen. And it’s a symptom of a broken system that we’re even talking about this.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Let me follow up with you on that. You are the only FBI agent who – now a congressman. On Monday, the top agent at the New York office, James Dennehy, said he was forced out of his job due to clashes with Justice Department officials over directives. He had been supportive of bureau leaders who resisted turning over the nations of those agents assigned to carry out investigations related to January the 6th, 2021. Are you concerned about all this political pressure?
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: I’m very concerned. I’m a huge defender and supporter of the bureau. It was the best job I ever had in my life, and most honorable job I’ve ever had in my life, keeping America safe. And I care very much about the agent population and the professional support staff that worked there. They’re a tremendous people. They are completely nonpartisan. At 14 years in the FBI, I never heard any political talk whatsoever, which is pretty remarkable. So –
MARGARET BRENNAN: That directly contradicts what the Homeland Security secretary said at the top of this program when she talked – she went at the FBI. The FBI director was –
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: Well, there have been conflicts at the top. I want – I want to differentiate. So, there have been problems on the seventh floor of the J. Edgar Hoover Building that they did politicize things, things like – people like Jim Comey, for example, who tweet out, you know, to vote single party during an election. You can’t do that as an FBI director. That’s terrible. He did it as a former director, but it undermines everything he did leading up to that point.
The FBI needs to be completely nonpartisan, completely apolitical. Personally, I think that part of the polygraph testing that comes in, so when you’re an agent coming through the process, you get tested on drug history, foreign contacts, financial vulnerabilities. They also ought to test political bias as well, just to give the public the assurance that people are coming into the bureau, checking their politics at the door.
REPRESENTATIVE TOM SUOZZI: This all comes down to a busting of norms. And things that we’ve been used to for years are all trying to be disrupted, and I think, in some ways, very dangerously. We can’t see this politization of the FBI. It’s a dangerous thing for our country.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Are you going to talk to the FBI director about any of this?
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: Absolutely. Absolutely.
MARGARET BRENNAN: About the firing for the political (INAUDIBLE)?
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: On past – Director – Director Patel worked on our committee.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: He was a staffer on the House Intelligence Committee, which I sit. And I look forward to having a conversation with him.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Congressman Suozzi, illegal border crossings, as we just discussed, they are at a historic low. President Trump made that point when he was addressing Congress this week. Was he right that – that he didn’t need to wait for Congress, that it was really messaging from the White House beyond?
REPRESENTATIVE TOM SUOZZI: Well, obviously, we’ve seen a reduction in crossings. We saw it under the end of the Biden administration as well after he did his executive order to say, no, asylum applications are between the ports of entry. But we need to make it permanent law. And Congress has not done its job for 30 years. So, we need to secure the border, we need to fix the broken asylum system and we need to treat people like human beings by fixing our legal immigration system.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you have an opening to do any of that, though?
REPRESENTATIVE TOM SUOZZI: I –
MARGARET BRENNAN: The two of you together?
REPRESENTATIVE TOM SUOZZI: I – I was working on this before I became the co-chair of the Problem Solvers Caucus for about a year with a guy named Morgan Lutrell (ph) from Texas, very conservative, former Navy SEAL guy, talking about the details, trying to build a coalition of business, badges and the Bible to work together to support an effort like this.
Now Brian and I, as co-chairs of the Problem Solvers Caucus are taking those efforts and others and trying – and we have a working group as well to say, as soon as that opening arises, we’re ready to make a deal.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I know, but you guys are talking about, you can’t even agree to keep the lights on, right?
REPRESENTATIVE TOM SUOZZI: OK, but we –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Like, you’re talking about really hard, substantive things.
REPRESENTATIVE TOM SUOZZI: Well, what’s going to happen is the – Homeland Security is going to need money.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE TOM SUOZZI: They’re – they’re spending money like crazy and the CR is not going to fix the problem. And at some –
MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s going to go to reconciliation, party line vote, right?
REPRESENTATIVE TOM SUOZZI: If – you can’t fix everything through reconciliation. And you’re going to need – and you can’t – certainly can’t fix asylum and you certainly can’t fix the dreamers and a whole bunch of other stuff through reconciliation. There is going to be an opening that’s going to come when they need Democratic votes. And my argument to my Democratic colleagues is, we should be looking to finally fix this broken immigration system once and for all. Secure the border, fix asylum, dreamers, farm workers, essential workers and other people that we need to keep our economy open.
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: And if I may add, one of the reasons why I’m so excited about Tom being the co-chair is he shares my passion and the passion of so many people about this issue that there is a border security piece and there is an immigration piece. And we’re a country of immigrants. All of our families came into this country through other places, Italy, Ireland.
REPRESENTATIVE TOM SUOZZI: My father was born in Italy.
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE TOM SUOZZI: And for Brian (ph) Fitzpatrick, Irish as well.
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: And, you know, that’s the – that’s the huge advantage that we have over our adversaries, is, we have an endless supply of brilliant people coming into this country. Nobody wants to move to Russia or China or North Korea or Iran. Everybody wants to come here. That’s a huge economic advantage. It’s a huge national security advantage.
So, we can combine border security and the rule of law with being – bringing the best and brightest people into this country and also people that are truly fleeing oppression. And that’s what America is about.
REPRESENTATIVE TOM SUOZZI: Margaret, every problem we face in our country is complicated. You know this as well as anybody. Everything’s complicated. You can’t, why don’t you just?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
REPRESENTATIVE TOM SUOZZI: There’s no, why don’t you just anything. Anybody who says that doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s an entire political campaign, why don’t you just.
REPRESENTATIVE TOM SUOZZI: Right. Right. Which doesn’t make sense.
And so what you need is people who may disagree with each other on certain issues –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE TOM SUOZZI: Just sit across from each other and say, well, I think this, well I think that, well how about this, well how about that, and you try and find a compromise somewhere in the middle.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE TOM SUOZZI: Compromise is not a dirty word. And we have got to figure out how to start moving our country forward, not with this all my way or the highway, you guys are no good because you’re one of those – no, you’re on of those.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
REPRESENTATIVE TOM SUOZZI: It’s not working for our country. People want us to work together to solve problems.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Let me ask you, Congressman Fitzpatrick, I know you feel very strongly about supporting Ukraine and its fight against Russia. Ben Hodges, who’s a retired general who commanded U.S. Army Europe, said he’s having a hard time understanding how withholding intelligence, and military support from Ukraine, advances strategic interests or helps make America great.
Can you explain that?
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: Well, I will say this, we’re going to get a briefing – a full briefing on this, this coming week. But I will say this, key in on what’s not being said here. What kind of intelligence and who can’t share it, right? So, what I suspect, and I will get confirmation of this next week, is that it’s the over the horizon intelligence striking into Russian territory.
MARGARET BRENNAN: It’s also satellite.
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: Possibly. But, second, we –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Maxar technologies cannot (INAUDIBLE).
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: We have seamless intelligence sharing with the U.K., to give you one example. There’s no restriction on the U.K. sharing that intelligence with Ukraine. So, what I suspect is happening here, and I could be proven wrong, this that this an escalate to de- escalate tactic by the administration to bring these parties to the table and to come to a conclusion, a just conclusion, which means success and victory for Ukraine. And I want to emphasize that. And I get asked, well, what does that mean?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: Vladimir – what victory means for me is Vladimir Putin regrets his decision to invade Ukraine. That he wishes he did not do that. And that’s really going to be the test here, right, because if we reward dictators from invading sovereign, freedom-loving democracies, we are sending a message to every other dictator and aspiring dictator across this plant that, if you do do that, you will be rewarded. That cannot be the message coming out of this.
REPRESENTATIVE TOM SUOZZI: Trump has been wrong in the way he’s handled this. I want to give Brian credit as co-chair of the Ukrainian Caucus, for standing up and saying, you cannot reward a dictator. Zelenskyy was elected by 73 percent of the Ukrainian population in a free and fair election as dictated by the European Commission that oversees free and fair elections. Putin is the dictator. Putin invaded. Zelenskyy is democratically elected. We cannot reward the guy responsible for murdering, for kidnapping, for raping, for all the awful things that have happened to the Ukrainian people. We all need to stand up for the Ukrainian people.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we know that the secretary of state, the national security adviser and President Trump’s envoy are all meeting with Ukrainian officials Tuesday. One of the things that I took note of, Congressman Fitzpatrick, you tweeted that you have an outcome determinative number of members of the U.S. Congress who ready, willing and able to do whatever it takes to prevent Putin from being rewarded. That sounds like you are threatening leverage with votes. How would you use it?
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: It’s not – it’s not a threat. What this is, is us making very clear that we view this issue to be existential to world peace. These are the lessons of World War II. When we had – when Germany invaded Poland in 1939 and you had leaders, including Neville Chamberlain and many other leaders around the world saying it’s not our problem, we don’t want to provoke, we don’t want to escalate. And a problem that could have been nipped in the bud early, because it was not, turned out to be the costliest and deadliest war in world history where we had to send our young – our youth in our country to fight on Omaha beach. We should never get to that point. We should learn from the lessons of history.
These dictators want to relitigate the outcome of World War II. And World War II, freedom won over dictatorship. They want to relitigate that. So, we just have to be mindful of history and how we approach this.
REPRESENTATIVE TOM SUOZZI: And if Putin gets away with this, just because Ukraine is a smaller country, think about Latvia and Lithuania and Estonia and Moldova and think about Poland.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
REPRESENTATIVE TOM SUOZZI: They’re all next. And we have to stand up against this.
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: And Putin has said that. He’s telegraphed this punch.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right. Well, President Trump says, oh, it’s all different when he’s in charge.
But, Congressman, I need to ask you, before you go, because of the districts and the unique characteristics of it, the one you represent, earlier this week we saw guidance from the chair of the National Republican Congressional Committee urging members to hold virtual town halls, suggesting that holding them in person was not a good idea. Will you still hold town halls with your constituents?
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: Yes. We – we communicate –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Because some have gotten quite heated recently.
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: Oh, I know. No, I think every member needs to find the best way to communicate with their constituents. And there’s a number of ways to do that. I think what Chairman Hudson is referring to are the – what’s turning out to be a circus, a three-ring circus, where you go to a high school gymnasium, the protesters shows up, they hold signs up, and you have legitimate concerns from some other people that are never heard because they’re getting shouted down by people that are there to make a spectacle, oftentimes that are funded by some of these dark money groups.
So, there’s – it’s about communicating to your constituents in a way that you can get your message out, that you can hear their concerns. And every single district does it different depending on – on where they’re at.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You, Congressman Suozzi, during the address to Congress this week, you did see Texas Democrat Congressman Green be disruptive. He was pulled out of the chamber because of that. Later censured with the votes of nine Democrats, including yourself, and 214 Republicans. Why did you take that vote against a fellow Democrat?
REPRESENTATIVE TOM SUOZZI: Because if it was a Republican doing the same thing to a Democratic president, I would have voted for that as well. And the bottom line is, it was a strategic mistake on the part – on our behalf as well because instead of talking about Social Security cuts, and talking about Medicaid cuts and talking about Medicare cuts, and talking about the things that the president said in his speech that we disagree with, especially things like Ukraine or firing people in these different departments that makes no sense whatsoever, we, instead, focus too much time on disruptive behavior.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE TOM SUOZZI: And the conduct of the Democrats. That was a strategic mistake, as well as something that just is not appropriate for the decorum of the U.S. House of Representatives.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Was – was that message from Democratic leadership not clear then?
REPRESENTATIVE TOM SUOZZI: I think that it was pretty clear. I understood a clear message.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
REPRESENTATIVE TOM SUOZZI: Let’s not make the story about us, let’s make the story about what President Trump says and how we disagree with it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE TOM SUOZZI: And we squandered that opportunity.
MARGARET BRENNAN: All right, thank you, gentlemen –
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: Thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: For doing this in a bipartisan fashion as well.
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: You bet.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be right back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Russia stepped up its aerial attacks on Ukraine following the Trump administration’s suspension of intelligence sharing and military equipment. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said Moscow has carried out hundreds of attacks using ballistic missiles and drones.
For more now, we’re joined by Fiona Hill. She is a senior fellow at Brookings and during the first Trump administration she was the senior director for European and Russian affairs on the National Security Council.
Good to have you back.
FIONA HILL (Senior Fellow, Brookings and Fromer National Security Council Senior Director for European and Russian Affairs): Yes, thanks, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, the U.S. pauses of lethal intelligence sharing, including targeting data for U.S.-provided weapons like HIMARS. We also know it extends to satellite imagery, which is no longer being shared with Ukraine.
What’s the practical impact of that and the military freeze?
FIONA HILL: Well, I think we can see the impact. It’s certainly, on the one hand, emboldened Russia to really step up the attacks, and it’s also not just blindsided but also partially blinded Ukraine. I mean, we heard from the previous segment that there’s still some sharing with allies, like the United Kingdom, of course, which is part of the Five Eyes sharing with the United States. But frankly, none of the other allies, including the U.K., have the same access to satellite imagery as the United States does. So, even if there is, you know, some sharing, not much restrictions, there certainly has an impact.
And, frankly, I think it’s going to be an impetus to other allies to start stepping up their own capabilities and questioning themselves about the virtues of sharing with the United States. I mean, this is a two-way street. We have to remember that other countries also share pretty vital information with the United States, even if the scale is not quite the same.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Canada, the U.K., Australia, among those who do so. You think they will essentially punish the U.S. by not sharing intelligence freely?
FIONA HILL: I’m not sure whether it’s punishment, but it will be a lot of questioning about what actually happens with this. Because if you’re bundling together intelligence, then effectively the United States is putting restrictions on that. Was that pre-discussed with our five eyes allies, for example, or with other allies, particularly in the midst of basically a conflict that is, as we’ve heard, you know, over and over again, the largest land war in Europe since World War II. I mean, this is really unprecedented in terms of the actions of the United States in this regard because he’s not just affecting Ukraine, again, it’s having knock-on effects for all of our other allies who are directly affected, all of our European allies that are directly affected by this conflict.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, President Trump said on Friday when he was asked if this uptick in Putin’s bombing was directly related to the U.S. halt. Here’s what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I actually think he’s doing what anybody else would do. I think he’s – I think he wants to get it stopped and settled, and I think he’s hitting them harder than – than he’s been hitting them. And I think probably anybody in that position would be doing that right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yet earlier in the day, the president had posted on social media he was considering possibly putting sanctions on Russia. That’s a contradiction. What do you make of what he said?
FIONA HILL: I make of it exactly what he said. I mean, he’s actually, obviously, putting himself in the shoes of Vladimir Putin and saying that if I were the aggressor, that’s exactly what I would be doing if I wanted to make Ukraine capitulate. So, I mean, yes, he called it as it is. I don’t believe what he said for a second about the sanctions. I believe more what he just said there in the Oval Office, sitting behind, you know, the Resolute Desk. I mean,n I think that’s what you can take away from this. He accurately –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Believe the president and when he says things?
FIONA HILL: That’s – I think you should. Yes. I mean, he’s the president of the United States. And he made it crystal clear, I think. And he sees, you know, obviously, the Ukraine – the Ukrainians, and he said that in the Oval Office during the meeting with President Zelenskyy, that he sees them on the back foot as losing, and he’s basically telling them that they have to capitulate. Very clear.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You don’t have the cards was the line. He kept using that.
FIONA HILL: That’s right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, I know you were at the Council on Foreign Relations this week, as was I. I had an interview with Trump’s envoy to Ukraine, Keith Kellogg. And when we were discussing the president’s decision to cut off Ukraine, he said, Ukrainians brought it on themselves, and the decision was, like, quote, “hitting a mule with a two by four across the nose, you got their attention.”
It’s quite a statement, comparing our ally to a farm animal here that needed to be beaten. Do you think it was right to say the Ukrainian government, though, was just not getting it?
FIONA HILL: Well, what they weren’t getting is really what President Trump wanted directly from them, which was obviously to have President Zelenskyy make a personal agreement with him in the Oval Office in front of all the cameras to thank him profusely for all the aid that was already provided to Ukraine over, you know, successive administrations now, and basically to sign a deal on rare earths minerals and then basically leave immediately after that. And clearly, President Zelenskyy didn’t really get that message.
And I think there’s a very important element here. In diplomacy, you really should not only be speaking in your native language. And I think that a lot of this was lost in translation. First of all, President Zelenskyy didn’t fully understand that this agreement was just purely with President Trump. And you may remember, if we all go back and watch that – I watched it many times just to try to figure out exactly where things had gone wrong, and there were multiple points. But there’s one point when President Zelenskyy basically said, look, you know, we had deals with your – your previous presidents, basically with Obama and Biden. And President Trump immediately dismissed all of that and basically said those deals were not worth the paper they were written on, or the commitments that were made because they were weak and it wasn’t me.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Because it was not me.
FIONA HILL: And President Zelenskyy didn’t quite follow all of this because, like the rest of our allies, he actually thinks that commitments made by the United States are supposed to hold over successive administrations. And what we learned there, what he learned there, was that is not the case. You’re essentially going to have to make a new commitment with President Trump. It’s a personal commitment. And that was what he was being told, and he didn’t fully understand.
And I think in the future, when the Ukrainians are meeting with the Americans, they ought to have translators with them because as good as President Zelenskyy’s English is, there’s two things that he’s missing there. He doesn’t quite understand the way that President Trump operates –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
FIONA HILL: Although I think he’s probably got the message now, but he doesn’t always understand the nuances. And I would also think that our side on the United States side could do with some interpretation as well, coming also from President Zelenskyy.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
FIONA HILL: So, my advice to President Zelenskyy and to the team around President Trump is, use interpreters, that’s what they’re there for.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And your own government’s interpreters?
FIONA HILL: That’s absolutely right, your own government’s interpreters, no (ph), because you actually asked that question, who’s interpreters were used and General Kellogg couldn’t answer the question.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right, for Steve Witkoff, who met with Putin for three and a half hours.
FIONA HILL: Correct.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Europe seems to be taking these threats seriously and looking at an alternative to the American nuclear deterrent. An umbrella. That’s – does that mean the transatlantic alliance is gone?
FIONA HILL: Well, it doesn’t mean that it’s gone, but there’s a bit of a kind of a one-sided attempt to rupture it here on the part of the United States.
I was also at the Munich Security Conference. I heard Vice President Vance’s speech. I was standing next to a couple of very prominent Europeans who were completely in shock.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
FIONA HILL: And immediately after that, as you well know, there were many statements coming out of Germany, as well as countries like Sweden, basically asking whether the United States could be trusted on nuclear weapons.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes. OK.
FIONA HILL: But we have to remember that Ukraine had nuclear weapons that it gave.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And they gave them up.
FIONA HILL: That’s correct.
MARGARET BRENNAN: With the promise of a security guarantee that was not delivered on.
FIONA HILL: Correct.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Fiona Hill, thank you.
We’ll be back.
FIONA HILL: Thanks.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s it for today. Thank you for watching. Until next week. For FACE THE NATION, I’m Margaret Brennan.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
